tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1248503935075362425.post2063622704314968432..comments2024-03-26T07:58:59.761+00:00Comments on I'll think of something later: A great Irish essayistDavidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14506881804082382739noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1248503935075362425.post-27370762234083725732016-10-06T22:06:27.445+01:002016-10-06T22:06:27.445+01:00There was a time when I would have read this post ...There was a time when I would have read this post with keen interest, yet not feel it struck so close to home. "I felt that it was not the human disaster but the damage done to honoured words and thoughts that was most irreparable" couldn't help but to remind me of the snake-oil salesman masquerading as a choir boy performance of the Republican VP candidate here in his debate. Lie after lie, all with not just a straight face, but a veneer of gentility, too. There was one thing that caught him out, at least for me: as he lied, he often looked down and squinted, so that one could not look into his eyes.Susan Scheidhttps://prufrocksdilemma.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1248503935075362425.post-85083672313811343672016-09-30T08:25:18.961+01:002016-09-30T08:25:18.961+01:00Yes, Liam, that's more the gist of it. Put pre...Yes, Liam, that's more the gist of it. Put pressure on Sir David to read him.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14506881804082382739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1248503935075362425.post-81203450496507009612016-09-30T03:26:14.833+01:002016-09-30T03:26:14.833+01:00All butlers essays are beautifully written.
LiamAll butlers essays are beautifully written.<br /><br />LiamLiamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1248503935075362425.post-8510878007568494422016-09-29T17:45:01.723+01:002016-09-29T17:45:01.723+01:00We're not talking about Pius XII, though in fa...We're not talking about Pius XII, though in fact Butler thinks more or less as you do. We're talking about a writer who shows extreme fastidiousness in trying to establish the facts, and it's quite clear that only one cardinal in Rome was in the least interested in trying to establish the truth about the Catholic Church in Croatia.<br /><br />So better to read the book first and to stick to the points I'm echoing. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14506881804082382739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1248503935075362425.post-5937351269365985832016-09-29T17:14:58.404+01:002016-09-29T17:14:58.404+01:00I would note that many of the reports - even whol...I would note that many of the reports - even whole books such as that by Avro Manhattan in the Croatian context - of actions during the war are in disagreement with each other - and references tend to be circular, to support a case. This is especially the case when local passions run high ( Orthodox versus Rome, still alive today). One has to read half a dozen reports before being sure. There were indeed some prelates who acted in ways which were awful. The Vatican took immediate and strong steps to correct that - notably in the case of Austria, where the immediate reaction of the local hierarchy was to welcome Hitler ( flags etc) when he invaded - the Cardinal was given the greatest condemnation in Rome. I suppose that I have read dozens of papers etc on the actions of the Vatican during the war, and the record, contrary to general opinion, is excellent. So I am careful before coming to conclusions as a result of one source. My interest is in the reputation of Pius XII as he has been criticised without justificationDavid Damantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1248503935075362425.post-3120093715735273912016-09-29T16:06:20.889+01:002016-09-29T16:06:20.889+01:00Not in the case of the Roman Catholic Church in Cr...Not in the case of the Roman Catholic Church in Croatia, which is what we're dealing with here. I suggest you get hold of a copy of this volume for chapter and verse, but these two details will do: 'When Pavelitch first entered Zagreb in 1941, the Church bells rang and Te Deums were proclaimed by the Primate. When he left in 1945, driven out by the partisans, it was under the floor in the Franciscan monastery in Zagreb that the State Treasure was hid, in the hope of a victorious return. It included boxes of jewellery and gold watches and gold teeth, stripped off the victims of the concentration camps'. There are more disgusting details including the one of the Franciscan who was rewarded for cutting the throats of over a thousand Orthodox. But like I said, read the book.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14506881804082382739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1248503935075362425.post-41621288863522298512016-09-29T15:52:44.688+01:002016-09-29T15:52:44.688+01:00One should keep in mind that the records of the se...One should keep in mind that the records of the several parties on the Jewish question during WWII are extremely varied in their reliability. Thus the Church under Pius XII worked actively where there was leverage, to modify and where possible stop the transfer of Jews to the death camps. The Pope gave explicit orders in the relevant directions<br /><br /> The resulting contacts between the papal nuncios or the local archbishops with the various dictatorial regimes were easily misinterpreted by those who saw any contact with the regimes as wrong. According to Jewish historians, hundreds of thousands of Jews were saved in this way. David Damantnoreply@blogger.com